Skip to main content
Topic: Reasons against AI (Read 4990 times) previous topic - next topic

Reasons against AI

Do you need reasons in a discussion with a pro AI idiot?

I posted this at renderosity, but am afraid, it won't last long and will be deleted soon.
We all know, how this page is ruled.
But if you feel stuck and need a reason in a discussion, feel free to use this:

Quote
AI's resource demands are substantial and growing rapidly, driven by the energy-intensive nature of training and running large models in data centers.

Electricity: AI servers consume vast amounts of electricity—300 terawatt-hours (TWh) annually by 2028 in the U.S., enough to power over 28 million households.  This represents a threefold increase from 2023 levels, with AI-specific electricity use projected to grow 150-fold from 2017 to 2028.  A single large AI data center can use as much power as 100,000 homes.

Water: Cooling AI servers is extremely water-intensive. The U.S. could require up to 720 billion gallons of water annually just for cooling by 2028—equivalent to the annual indoor water needs of 18.5 million households.  This includes 1.3 to 2.4 gallons of water per kWh of energy used for cooling.  Some data centers, like those in Phoenix, use about 385 million gallons per year for cooling alone, not including water used to generate electricity.

Other Resources:

Cooling systems rely on fresh, treated water to prevent bacterial growth and blockages; Google-owned centers discharge only 20% of withdrawn water, with the rest lost to evaporation.
Supply chains for AI hardware (e.g., GPUs, microchips) require 8–10 liters of water per chip for manufacturing.
Fossil fuel-powered electricity amplifies water use and carbon emissions, as thermoelectric power plants consume significant water for cooling.
Land and minerals: Data centers require large land areas and rely on rare earth elements and metals, often mined unsustainably.
Key Insight: While a single ChatGPT query uses only ~0.32 milliliters of water (about 1/15th of a teaspoon), the cumulative impact across billions of queries is immense.  The environmental cost is especially high in water-stressed regions like Arizona and the Southwest, where data centers compete with agriculture and communities for limited water supplies.

Conclusion: AI’s resource footprint—especially electricity and water—is not negligible, and current growth trends threaten climate goals, water security, and energy infrastructure.
Handle with care, I'm easy distracted with a woozy mind

Re: Reasons against AI

Reply #1
... and in this context, lets not forget this:

AI and LLMs (Large Language Models) are trained on data that has to come from somewhere, right ?
So where does this data come from ?
From data workers in countries like Kenya !

This is something the big AI companies are very unwilling to admit.
There are hordes of "data workers", analysing images and texts being feed into Chatbots and LLMs.
There are around 150 to 430 million of "data workers", which is the equvivalent of the eintire population of the EU.

Most of them are located in "third world countries" (as per usual) and these "data workers" are crusial for keeping the AI-systems running.
A "data worker" in Kenya earns shy of $ 2.00 an hour and work days can be as long as 18 hours.

They have to sign an NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement), so they can not talk to anybody about the work they do.
And social security, like mental health care - forget it !
All policies are there to protect the Ai companies.

So what is this if not colonialism ?
Albeith in a modern times digital disguise, but still raw and old fashioned colonialism.
The usual exploitation of humans in a weak economic position.

All this so that Jensen Huang can do his prancing around on stage while talking nonsense about AI and Wall Street can keep trading the AI companies for sums of money you just can't fathom.

Because what is an LLM ?
In its essence it's a word guessing machine that makes its guessing based on probabilities.
A stochastic parrot !

If we compare the "evolution" of AI to breading horses, it's like breading horses to make them faster and faster and finally - lo and behold - birth is given to a locomotive.
Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.

So the only thing that's left is money.
And that's the bottom line.
Money !

- John -

// Just for fun, do a Google search on Prolific and Amazon Mechanical Turk //

Re: Reasons against AI

Reply #2
Or, in extremely short:

It's slavery!


Btw. it makes me wonder (and am happy about it) that my post is still in the forum at rosity.
Only 18 views, but 1 answered, that is 1 more than I was even hoping for.
One, who for sure will share this other places.

As long as we can wake up the masses, one by one, it's a little victory.
I haven't checked it by now, but I was told that youtube made a stop to the masses of these awful created ai videos.
Now the next to stop is every video, spoken with ai.

On the long run, we will win!
Handle with care, I'm easy distracted with a woozy mind

 

Re: Reasons against AI

Reply #3
Or, in extremely short:

It's slavery!

Unfortunately, slavery is considered ok by those profiting from it - as long as it happens far far away from themselves.
Like, in another (third world) country ...
So yes - it does still exists.

Much of the wealth of "developed" countiries builds on humans working and living under appaling conditions.
But not in the same country as the rich people, of course not.
But in another country where they can't say no to earning even an almost non-existing salory.
The very basics of most prosperous economies builds on the fact that someone lose when someone else wins.
So the trick is to be on the side that wins.
Every time !

I dare say that many (if not most) of the "Fortune 500"-companies are reluctant to an in-depth scruteny of their business models ...

And AI is business.
Big business !

- John -

Re: Reasons against AI

Reply #4
We don't even need to go so far away.

It's off topic, so to say, but Ikea made its wealth with workers in the old GDR, cause they made most of the furniture for very cheap money, so Ikea was able to sell cheap in other countries.
And the workers really got almost nothing.

So yes, slavery still exists, sometimes far away, sometimes right around the corner.

Quote
IKEA had furniture and accessories manufactured in the GDR until 1989, and there is evidence that political prisoners and convicts were used as forced laborers. An investigation commissioned in 2012 revealed that the company had been aware of this practice since 1978 (or 1981 at the latest), as production took place in state-owned enterprises (VEBs) such as Metallwaren Naumburg and the Waldheim Seating Furniture Factory.

Although IKEA cites the lack of control systems at the time, the company acknowledges that some employees were aware of the possible use of forced laborers and that steps were taken to prevent it, though these were insufficient. In response to the revelations about forced labor, IKEA agreed in 2024 to pay six million euros into a nationwide hardship fund for victims of the SED dictatorship to provide financial support to those affected.

Production included both complete furniture pieces and individual accessories, with some prisoners working under extreme conditions and far higher labor standards than in regular factories. While IKEA apologized for the failure of controls at the time and expressed regret for the victims, those affected criticize that a purely financial contribution to a fund without direct individual compensation for the suffering endured is insufficient.
Handle with care, I'm easy distracted with a woozy mind

Re: Reasons against AI

Reply #5
True !
... as I said about the "Fortune 500"-companies.

Whithout turning  political, it is widely known that the founder - Ingvar Kamprad - had nazi sympaties and more or less all of the funiture companies in Sweden considers IKEA to be an impossible client to work with, because of their demands.
Hence, IKEA turns to low income countries.

Among other things, they have been acused of using illegal logging in Ukraine and logging of primeval forrests in Russian Karelia.

Need I say that no IKEA stuff ever enters my home ?

- John -

180.000 petition ...

Re: Reasons against AI

Reply #6
Thanks for the link ♥

Yes, I knew about his sympathies and when I read in the article, that Ikea paid 6 million Euro it made again "click" in my head.
This number really has to be something special to some creatures.
Handle with care, I'm easy distracted with a woozy mind

Re: Reasons against AI

Reply #7
Yes, we have now landed way off topic, so lets get back ON topic.

The core question for me is if The Internet is dead already ?
Will search engines and an open Internet survive the great slopification that's going on ?

Is ChatGTP the new superintelligence or is it just the most effective spam generator of all times ?

Because when nonsense producing entities are given the ability to produce even more nonsense, the proportion of nonsense will increase exponentially.

Like the Norwegian gigant owl, anyone ?

You tell me !

- John -

Re: Reasons against AI

Reply #8
*roflmao* we will be flooded with white Norwegian giant owls  :))

By now it's know, that chaqtgtp is spitting out more nonsense than any other intelligence
My hope is growing, that ai will kill itself  :))
Handle with care, I'm easy distracted with a woozy mind

Re: Reasons against AI

Reply #9
On the same note as the Norwegian gigant owl, we have the Shrimp Jesus images:



They started turning up on Zuckerhell - sorry, Facebook - some 2 years ago.
The creator is Steven Mwangi, who most probably lives in Kenya (there we go again).
The incentive for posting the images was for visitors to click on them, share them and comment on them.
Because if they went viral, he was rewarded by Facebook with a small payout.

So Facebook wasn't only a participant in spreading these images.
They were an agressive participant who actually subsidized the slop.

Food for thoughts !

- John -

Re: Reasons against AI

Reply #10
I saw these Shrimp Jesus images in a movie about this crap.
What I like most with the picture you've posted is, that Jesus has 6 fingers. AI will never learn  :))
Handle with care, I'm easy distracted with a woozy mind

Re: Reasons against AI

Reply #11
That would be John Oliver,
I have already posted that video - but it's so good it can be published again:

John Oliver on AI Slop

(Pssst ... when flying with Pope Francis, Jesus has six fingers ... )

- John -